Tumbling new EV prices

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thecaretaker
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Mar 2021 24 17:04

Tumbling new EV prices

Well, maybe the government does know what it is doing. Despite lowering the EV grant as I commented about HERE, a number of manufacturers have slashed the prices of new EV's to come in under the £35 threshold.


Kia have announced a sub £35k long range e-Niro '2' trim today to get round the new grant: https://www.kiapressoffice.com/en-gb/releases/1308

Citroen has cut the cost of its e-C4 to under £35k https://www.zap-map.com/citroen-lowers- ... car-grant/

MG has pledged to continue offering the full £3000 discount on all their EVs

So it looks like the governments move is forcing car manufacturers to lower the overall cost of buying a new EV. So maybe they were hiking the prices in the first place. Time will tell... -Big grin.png-

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Keyolder
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Mar 2021 24 19:43

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

thecaretaker wrote: Wed, 24th Mar 2021, 5:04pm So it looks like the governments move is forcing car manufacturers to lower the overall cost of buying a new EV. So maybe they were hiking the prices in the first place. Time will tell... -Big grin.png-
Imho, manufacturers have long inflated the price of their new EV’s to make their core line seem more attractive price wise. After all they are still producing thousands of petrol/diesel engines every day that need new owners…
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AndyCornwall
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Mar 2021 25 09:11

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

EVs are much less complicated mechanically than IC vehs, have fewer tests required for approval and should cost less to make than an IC car, when volumes are closer to the current alternatives.

Businesses being what they are prices will always be set to maximise profit and advantage will be taken when it can.

However, if they can't sell IC vehs in 9 years, they will need to get busy capturing customers, one way or another.
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thecaretaker
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Apr 2021 03 12:08

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

BMW has reduced prices for the BMW i3 and BMW i3s in response to the recent overhaul of Government’s Plug-in Car Grant (PiCG).

Prices now starts from £33,805 OTR for the BMW i3 and £34,805 OTR for the sporty BMW i3s before the grant.

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Vera
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Apr 2021 06 08:25

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

I have recently started to look into the possibility of doing an EV conversion on my classic Mini that I am restoring.

I have to say the cost of components is eye wateringly expensive at the moment.
If you consider just the motor, a standard industrial motor of comparable size and power output (albeit with differing characteristics) can be had for £2-300, an EV motor £1500 to £3000 and I'm not talking a tesla drive unit with gearbox and diff built in, oh no just the motor...

The other components needed are equally expensive for what is basically HV switching and control units with some clever software to run it..
A ac charger unit 20A air cooled, that will be £1300 please... to give some perspective to this i have a 20A ac charger built into my camper which cost the grand total of £80..

Prices are just stupid.
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Apr 2021 06 09:09

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Vera wrote: Tue, 6th Apr 2021, 8:25am I have recently started to look into the possibility of doing an EV conversion on my classic Mini that I am restoring.

I have to say the cost of components is eye wateringly expensive at the moment.
If you consider just the motor, a standard industrial motor of comparable size and power output (albeit with differing characteristics) can be had for £2-300, an EV motor £1500 to £3000 and I'm not talking a tesla drive unit with gearbox and diff built in, oh no just the motor...

The other components needed are equally expensive for what is basically HV switching and control units with some clever software to run it..
A ac charger unit 20A air cooled, that will be £1300 please... to give some perspective to this i have a 20A ac charger built into my camper which cost the grand total of £80..

Prices are just stupid.
There is very little room atm for after market suppliers , everything is OEM so you can expect the prices to be silly.

A used engine for my 10 year old seat is 1500GBP, a new one will cost me over 5k. crazy.

An EV motor is nothing like an industrial motor, but the prices are still silly. Well for what you get they may not be, but that depends on it's value to you.

You can't compare a charger for 1kWh of car batteries at 12 to 24v which require simple charging to 50kWh of lithium batteries at many hundreds of volts balancing 1000s of cells. I mean you could compare them but it would not be useful. They are just not doing the same thing.

For an EV the batteries are going to cost 1000s of pounds, only increasing manufacturing volume and a reduction in demand will alter that.

The Tesla for example has 85kWh of energy weighs half a ton and the voltage of the pack is 400V, you can see that the charging unit (10kW) needs to supply (only) 25A to the pack, altho meatier chargers are available.

One day stuff will be cheaper...
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Vera
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Apr 2021 06 09:46

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the chargers and motors are the same, but they are similar in construction and therefore it is hard to justify the price differences

Take this motor and controller package, this is the most popular option for converters right now but at £4,220 for just the motor and controller.. -JawDropped.png-
https://zero-ev.co.uk/product/netgain-h ... oller-kit/

Or to put it another way there is a company called Swindon powertrains who make conversion kits for the classic mini.
If you were to buy the whole kit from them to DIY electrify your own mini the total cost would be £38,000 just for the components!

You can see why there is a healthy market right now for crashed and written off EV's
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AndyCornwall
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Apr 2021 06 15:12

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Yeah I can see why a motor might seem like any other motor, but that motor produces 120hp ( about 90kW )and is much more sophisticated than a normal mains inductance motor, with a speed controller to harness that power.

Yeah, there is a healthy used market for EV parts and even when the battery has come to the end of it's car life they are used in power storage systems.

Parts will eventually get cheaper.
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Keyolder
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Apr 2021 07 12:34

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Vera wrote: Tue, 6th Apr 2021, 8:25am I have recently started to look into the possibility of doing an EV conversion on my classic Mini that I am restoring.
Prices are just stupid.
A classic Mini electrified, nice but with a starting price of £79k… -Shock.png-
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Vera
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Apr 2021 07 13:19

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Keyolder wrote: Wed, 7th Apr 2021, 12:34pm A classic Mini electrified, nice but with a starting price of £79k… -Shock.png-
Yes that's the one from Swindon powertrain.
It's very nice but at £38,000 for the DIY kit to convert it is well outside my budget.

The issue with a mini unlike many other vehicles is that the crank is not in the same line as the input shaft to the gearbox therefore making an electric motor a tad tricky to fit and make work well. Vehicles like the VW beetle are easy by comparison its as simple as using an adaptor plate and shaft coupler to connect the motor to the gearbox input shaft and that's it.
A mini engine is sat on top of the gearbox so the drive goes via a clutch plate through 3 drop gears to the input shaft of the gearbox which is in the opposite direction to the engine output shaft..

Strange thing is that most conversions work through the original gearbox you simply put it in (lets say) 3rd gear and away you go.
Most are also made so that it is possible to revert to an entirely standard ICE should you wish to at a later date.
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Keyolder
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Apr 2021 07 14:02

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Vera wrote: Wed, 7th Apr 2021, 1:19pm The issue with a mini unlike many other vehicles is that the crank is not in the same line as the input shaft to the gearbox therefore making an electric motor a tad tricky to fit and make work well.
I remember back in the early 70’s helping a friend remove his Mini’s non-working engine/transaxle and replace it with a working one. Only 850cc easy peasy we thought until we collected the replacement from a scrap yard and couldn’t believe how heavy it was. Had to hire an engine hoist but we did it in a weekend.
The Mini was stolen a few months later… -Shock.png-

You could almost buy an early Leaf with the cost of that electric motor alone, I've driven a 2011 Leaf with 80k plus miles on the clock and it drove exactly the same as my 2016 Leaf.
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Vera
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Apr 2021 07 14:28

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Keyolder wrote: Wed, 7th Apr 2021, 2:02pm I remember back in the early 70’s helping a friend remove his Mini’s non-working engine/transaxle and replace it with a working one. Only 850cc easy peasy we thought until we collected the replacement from a scrap yard and couldn’t believe how heavy it was. Had to hire an engine hoist but we did it in a weekend.
The Mini was stolen a few months later… -Shock.png-

You could almost buy an early Leaf with the cost of that electric motor alone, I've driven a 2011 Leaf with 80k plus miles on the clock and it drove exactly the same as my 2016 Leaf.
-Big grin.png- Yes a cast iron block and head mated to the gearbox, clutch, flywheel the lot, is pretty darn heavy.
Two people can fairly easily pick up and carry the bare shell most of the weight is engine, gearbox and subframes.

You can indeed buy a second hand leaf for similar money but then you can't go to classic car and mini rallies with one, neither would you get smiles and waves as you drive down the road in a leaf either.
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Keyolder
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Apr 2021 07 15:21

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Vera wrote: Wed, 7th Apr 2021, 2:28pm -You can indeed buy a second hand leaf for similar money but then you can't go to classic car and mini rallies with one, neither would you get smiles and waves as you drive down the road in a leaf either.
-Big grin.png- Indeed, and I doubt an electrified Mini would go down that well with the Mini aficionados either, leave it as Issigonis designed it I say -Like.png-
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Vera
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Apr 2021 07 16:09

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

Keyolder wrote: Wed, 7th Apr 2021, 3:21pm -Big grin.png- Indeed, and I doubt an electrified Mini would go down that well with the Mini aficionados either, leave it as Issigonis designed it I say -Like.png-
As mine started life as an Automatic (Minimatic to be precise) Mini and the auto is broken I'm not too concerned about looking into EV.
You would be surprised at the number of classic car enthusiasts that are starting to look to EV to keep old vehicles on the road, as long as it is possible to reverse the job then there is no harm done. There are many in the Miniverse who fit Vauxhall, Honda civic and Nissan Micra engines to their Mini in order to make them faster or more refined in day to day usage.
I don't have too many misgivings about changing the fuel type, it is more important that the cars themselves are preserved for future generations to enjoy
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thecaretaker
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Apr 2021 07 16:27

Re: Tumbling new EV prices

I had a Leyland mini 850cc (Pageant Blue). I needed to replace the lower radiator hose. It was near impossible to get a spanner down between the side facing radiator and the body to the bottom hose bolt. Many folk cut a hole in the side (air fins behind the wheel) to get better access. But I did persevere and finally managed it somehow. They weren't the easiest car to work on, but parts were off the shelf at most dealers and very cheap in comparison to other cars. I loved my mini.

You'd only spend that kind of money to electrify one if the chassis and bodywork were in tip tip condition. The Leyland Mini's were prone to rust and used thinner metal than the original. The older models with external door hinges were much more solid. When I had mine in the early 80's, you only saw older versions or younger Leyland models on the road. There was a gap between the old version and the Leyland ones as the newer only lasted 8 years or so. The original mini's went on for years.

My favourite was the Mini Hornet with a boot. Lovely walnut dash. I bought a kit and added the Walnut dash and door trims to my 850cc Mini. Looking back now, I spent far too much money on that Mini. I fully carpeted it, added radios and clocks etc. A misguided youth as when you sold it, you never really got your money back despite it looking like a miniature Rolls Royce. But it was my first car and I loved it (and remember it to this day).

For those who didn't know what the Mini Elf or Hornet looked like (note external door hinges and no, the radiator wasn't behind that imposing front grill as far as I recall - it was on the right hand side of the transverse engine same as other mini's)

hornet.png
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