BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

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thecaretaker
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Jul 2021 20 21:16

BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

It's starting to happen, EV's are being chosen on mass as company cars and by fleet users. This is sooner than I expected

June saw orders for battery electric vehicles (BEVs) overtake internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles for the first time at independent leasing and fleet management company Zenith. The transition to BEV in cars account for 54% of orders in June. Demand for electric vans also increased in June to account for 69% of van orders.

“Company car and salary sacrifice car scheme drivers continue to be attracted to the significant Benefit-in-Kind (BiK) tax savings that can be made when choosing an EV, the ever-growing choice in vehicles and confidence in the charging infrastructure.”

https://leasingbrokernews.co.uk/ev-orde ... -at-zenith

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thecaretaker
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Jul 2021 21 08:50

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

Another thing I hadn't thought of, I was just reading about the governments decarbonisation plan which a part of involves the mass roll out of on-street chargers next year. In some areas, this will include road markings to reserve parking spaces next to the chargers for EV's drivers to charge. Rumour has it that it could be made illegal to park in the spaces if you don't have an EV. A bit like on-street disabled bay markings. Owners of ICE vehicles fear that they will have their ability to park on streets reduced. The fear is that this might be another ploy to force ICE owners to switch to electric.

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Keyolder
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Jul 2021 21 09:29

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

thecaretaker wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 8:50am Owners of ICE vehicles fear that they will have their ability to park on streets reduced. The fear is that this might be another ploy to force ICE owners to switch to electric.
There are quite a few lamppost EV chargers close to where I live, I very rarely see EV’s using them. Mostly the spaces are used by fossil fuelled vehicles, signs are in place saying they are dedicated EV charging bays but who takes any notice of signage nowadays…
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Vera
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Jul 2021 21 10:42

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

The second hand market for EV will start to take off when the ex lease / fleet vehicles come through, although not sure I would want a high mileage EV that almost certainly will have mainly been Fast charged for most of its life battering the battery pack.

In terms of parking will it then also be illegal to park in one of those spaces in an EV if you are not charging?
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Keyolder
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Jul 2021 21 10:52

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

I feel I should add to my post above, charging on these lamppost chargers is quite expensive and slow at only 5kW instead of the normal 7kW. You also need to pay for parking unless you are a resident and have a parking permit. So, comparing lamppost chargers to dedicated public EV destination chargers in car parks or charging hubs to me they are not worth the effort, and so far I’ve not needed to use one.
Vera wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 10:42am In terms of parking will it then also be illegal to park in one of those spaces in an EV if you are not charging?
The parking wardens only seem to check for parking and not care if its an EV or not or charging or not, so if you've paid for parking you are ok?
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Keyolder
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Jul 2021 21 11:13

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

Vera wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 10:42am The second hand market for EV will start to take off when the ex lease / fleet vehicles come through, although not sure I would want a high mileage EV that almost certainly will have mainly been Fast charged for most of its life battering the battery pack.
If you have 10 minutes to spare watch this video, it may dispel some of the rumours surrounding battery longevity in EV’s:

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Vera
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Jul 2021 21 12:00

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

Keyolder wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 11:13am If you have 10 minutes to spare watch this video, it may dispel some of the rumours surrounding battery longevity in EV’s:
All valid points but comparing the two extremes of mileage isn't really fair and the same could be said for ICE cars, any car with very low miles and stood for long periods of time is not going to be in the best state of health.

My point was an EV driven by the average person will be charged (and discharged on average) at a lower C rate (often at home) which is good for lithium battery longevity. A company car driven hard and fast charged continuously will have more degradation of the battery pack.
That is not a vehicle I would choose to own. Also an older ICE car with mechanical problems can be fixed on the driveway with a little knowledge and some basic tools meaning a cheaper repair cost. For an ICE car I'm not sure this is possible or advisable.

Also a video offering advice on second hand EV's from a second hand EV car sales company is hardly likely to tell the whole truth now are they?
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Jul 2021 21 12:55

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

I've not had chance to watch the video yet, but I do know some taxi drivers from EV groups/forums that have clocked up massive mileage and only ever rapid charge. After 3 years, their battery SOH is still in the high 90% figure.

So a heavily used battery isn't such an issue. Leaving a car standing at 100% charge seems to do far more harm to a battery.

Before buying an EV, the dealer or seller should be able to tell you what the batteries SOH is.

There are 10 year old Nissan Leaf's running around with the original battery with 70-80% SOH. It looks like batteries will out last the cars. But in saying this, batteries are getting bigger and bigger and whether that will have a effect on their life expectancy who knows. I do wonder with some EV's being able to charge up to 300kw in 20 minutes whether they are starting to push the technology too far.

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Jul 2021 21 14:20

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

Vera wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 12:00pm Also a video offering advice on second hand EV's from a second hand EV car sales company is hardly likely to tell the whole truth now are they?
I understand your distrust of car salesman, I have the same opinion of them however he was not trying to sell any of his stock in that video. Being an EV owner for over 5 years now I can relate to what the video demonstrates.

My Nissan Leaf when I bought it at 6 months old and 3k miles had a battery state of health of 88%, a lot of degradation for a battery in 6 months. It was an ex-demonstrator and probably sat for most of that 6 months fully charged at 100% ready for use. When I sold it early this year at 18k miles and almost 6 years old the battery condition was 92%. I rapid charged it 55 times plus over 500 destination charges during the cars lifetime and never noticed any loss of range over the 5 years.

All EV batteries have a battery management system (BMS) that monitors everything about the battery and will reduce charging speed if it detects the battery is approaching its heat threshold. This is referred to as ‘Rapid Gate’ amongst the EV community, the BMS will not allow any battery misuse protecting itself. My Leaf had 2 BMS software updates over the time I owned it.

When rapid charging an EV once the battery has reached around 70% state of charge the charge rate is throttled back by the batteries BMS. In fact its hardly worth rapid charging past 80% state of charge as that last 20% can take over an hour or longer to complete. In my current EV the charge rate starts to throttle back at 60% state of charge when rapid charging.

EV’s are not perfect by any means, they are inconvenient currently for most people’s usage. A complete rethink of long journey planning is required which I suspect is the hurdle preventing ownership for many people which I fully understand.
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Vera
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Jul 2021 21 16:45

Re: BEV orders surpass ICE vehicles

Keyolder wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 2:20pm I understand your distrust of car salesman, I have the same opinion of them however he was not trying to sell any of his stock in that video. Being an EV owner for over 5 years now I can relate to what the video demonstrates.
You are correct that he is not trying to sell his stock in the video but it still rings true that as a used car salesman he is very unlikely to say anything other than "all EV's are brilliant". After all the best adverts in the world convey a warm fuzzy feeling associated with the product I'm thinking here the Coca Cola ad "I'd like buy the world a coke" it wasn't saying "buy this it tastes really good" it was saying buy this and the whole world will be a better place..
Keyolder wrote: Wed, 21st Jul 2021, 2:20pm EV’s are not perfect by any means, they are inconvenient currently for most people’s usage. A complete rethink of long journey planning is required which I suspect is the hurdle preventing ownership for many people which I fully understand.
To be fair I just think that trying to force everyone to accept the one car propulsion type is very short sighted. People will make up their own mind as to which type of vehicle they drive, trying to force the issue by taxation of the individual or incentives to buy one over the other is wrong.
The same technique was used in the 90's to push everyone towards diesel vehicles which were better for the environment when it turns out the complete opposite was the case, how do we know the same will not be the case with BEV's?
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