Staffing

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unkiefest
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Mar 2021 31 07:13

Staffing

Hi All.

Just asking about numbers of site staff (caretakers/key holders) you have at your schools.

Our school has 1600 pupils and 164 staff,104 class rooms and various other rooms. How many site staff do you have ?. At present we have only myself and 1 other . I am struggling to get jobs done and get my holidays in due contractors coming in during schools holidays . I keep asking for more staff but i get the usual "no money the school cant afford it" story.

Cheers.
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twiglets
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Mar 2021 31 07:23

Re: Staffing

Seems a bit light? It probably depends on what your job role is and what responsibilities you have. Who deals with cleaners? who deals with security? who does the statutory checks? are you split shift? do you do general maintenance or get contractors in for everything? how do you cover absence? how many hours a day do you both work?
I am one off, primary, 450 pupils, 70 staff 15 classrooms plus others so difficult to compare with a senior school.
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Eddy
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Mar 2021 31 07:41

Re: Staffing

Back in the day as a High School Site manager, i had two caretakers, and a janitor/cleaner. For a school about the same size as yours.

Now in primary, there is me for 18 hours and a caretaker for 15 hours per week
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Taz
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Mar 2021 31 07:42

Re: Staffing

As above, depends on what you're expected to do, but with that being said, if you're not able to get your holiday in during the holidays due to contractors, then something needs to be looked at.

Could a.n.other not unlock for contractors? A trusted/responsible cleaner, especially if (like our school) you are told there must be somebody (from school) on site at all times during contractors work periods. Cleaner could be contactable, either by use of a school mobile, own mobile if they are ok with it, or a radio.

Can your "1 other" not do it and cover you whilst your off? If it doesn't fit with their time patterns, then they either claim overtime or when you come back have TOIL. Personally I would have it so that you and the 1 other are covering each other whilst the other is off, and if that means doing extra to cover what's happening...

Also a lot depends on your set up at the school. Here, I am Site Manager (Primary) with 270-80 pupils, and 3 cleaners. I control/organise who comes in during holidays to fit around me. If that means I need to do 10 hour shifts to make sure contractors are in and can do what they need to in time in order for me to fit my holidays in, then that's what I do. Either claim it as extra, or bank it up and use as an extra day off if I have that much overtime.

With those numbers you state though, I would say you need to utilise at least 1 of your cleaners to step up in the event of absence. Unless of course your 1 other is a cleaner, in which case you're seriously understaffed!!

Failing that, SLT need to help out if you need the extra body and don't have the capacity to pay one.
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Vera
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Mar 2021 31 07:59

Re: Staffing

I was previously in a school with similar numbers and there was 3 caretakers and one site manager who occasionally helped out.

2 seems very under staffed to me.

Best option might be to force the point and get the other caretaker to agree with you to work only the time you should do (contracted hours) just make sure you are always busy but don't break your neck and work in a steady manner. Might be a good idea to document what you do daily so you have evidence of being busy. Remember to take your breaks and lunch times.

Make sure you are in a union before you start as it may get ugly..
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Handyman
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Mar 2021 31 09:25

Re: Staffing

I am by myself here (450 primary age pupils), was previously at a secondary school with approx. 1600 pupils and we had seven site staff (site manager, deputy site manager, senior site controller, 2 x assistant site controllers, lettings officer - who also worked part time during the day, and an apprentice). The LA guidelines actually recommended the site only needed a site manager and a part time assistant though.

Not sure how they expect you to cope, especially if one person goes on long-term sick leave or resigns and it takes time to find a replacement.
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jholden
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Mar 2021 31 09:53

Re: Staffing

1250 students, 75 teaching staff, 45 non teaching staff. We have:

1x Senior Caretaker who works 0800 - 1600
1x Assistant Caretaker who works 0730 - 1530
1x Security Officer/Caretaker (residential on site) who works 1400 - 2200

Additional keyholders are:
The Business Manager
The Facilities Officer (That's me and by my own choice, I get in anytime between 0630-0700 each day so I open the site up for the lads)
The Headteacher
One of the Deputy Heads who lives just down the road from the school
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Cliff_Promise
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Mar 2021 31 11:10

Re: Staffing

470 odd pupils on last count. 2 classes per year group. Primary school. Big old school if you ask me and I am the only sole member of the site team.

Would love a co-worker. Other schools in the area all have 2/3 members of their teams. Certainly makes things easier and I think the school would be thriving if I had some help. Sort of feel like you're just keeping your head above the water in terms of work load at times. Of course I base all my work on how important it is to be completed.

What's worst is not getting a thank you. I don't know, it just really irks me when people don't have manners.
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Vera
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Mar 2021 31 11:46

Re: Staffing

510 pupils 67 staff with Pre school nursery, Special needs unit and Breakfast/ after school club with holiday club provision too.

Just me, 37 hours plus 5 takes me to 42 hours a week split shift starting 07.00 finishing at 18.30
It's damn hard work and yes sometimes you just wonder about the mentality of some..

The kids are a real pick me up though and most of the time I need it.
i'm going to need a bigger bucket! -JawDropped.png-
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Dexter
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Mar 2021 31 12:44

)

I have worked in four secondaries. Two had two caretakers but were between 6-900 and two had three and they were between 1,000-1,200 pupils. I would say that you are well-understaffed.

The school should be able to compare the site staff costs with similarly sized schools nationally using the DFE's benchmarking website. The school's business manager should have a password for this. Some years ago the DFE introduced Consistent Financial Reporting so schools could compare costs with each other and ask questions of why they were different. (Its intention was to drive costs down!) If this comparison has been made they will see it as a big tick unless the downsides of the spending level are identified.

If you flagged up "H&S issues" (ie things you do not have sufficient time to do or check because of time constraints) and your personal well-being with the disproportionate demands (both physical and mental) on you, then you may be in a position to get change.

Management are likely to turn a deaf ear to you otherwise. Whilst the job is being done without any major issue, and at little relative cost, they will see no reason for change. It may also be worth looking back, over the years, to how the pupil numbers may have changed and any additional demands (new buildings, new clubs, extra duties etd) that have been placed without any additional help.
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Cliff_Promise
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Mar 2021 31 12:54

Re: Staffing

Vera wrote: Wed, 31st Mar 2021, 11:46am 510 pupils 67 staff with Pre school nursery, Special needs unit and Breakfast/ after school club with holiday club provision too.

Just me, 37 hours plus 5 takes me to 42 hours a week split shift starting 07.00 finishing at 18.30
It's damn hard work and yes sometimes you just wonder about the mentality of some..

The kids are a real pick me up though and most of the time I need it.
That's a great point about the kids. There is no better pick me up. Seeing them all arrive wearing their Easter Bonnets this morning, they were so pleased with what they'd made! Speaking with them and telling them how amazing they looked. Really does make my day! -Success.png-

At the end of the day - we do our jobs for the children. I think some members of staff forget that at times.

It's all for the pupils.
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gadget300
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Mar 2021 31 16:53

Re: Staffing

Senior school and college: 1000 KS3, 200 KS4, plus approx 140 staff then. site manager 40 hours, senior caretaker 40 hours, caretaker 40 hours, caretaker 20 hours, cleaning supervisor 40 hours, 15 cleaners 15 hours each.
Took all holiday in term time only as school holidays busiest time.

Infant school, 180 ks1, 15 staff, site manager 40 hours, cleaner 20 hours
Took all holiday during school holidays as only one there. Booked contractors accordingly, had good relationships with HT and BM and they let me deal with it all as long as it got done.

That’s my 2 experiences of 2 very different roles.
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btrousers
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Mar 2021 31 17:35

Re: Staffing

3 form infant and junior school school, just me, 36 hours a week, works fine for me.
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unkiefest
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Apr 2021 01 06:35

Re: Staffing

Hi.

Thank you for all your comments I have read each and everyone.

Our hours are week of early shift week of late shift rotating each week.
Early 6am - 2pm
Late 1pm -9pm.

If we want any time off during school term then we have to cover both shifts 15hrs which makes a very long day. Luckily neither of us have had any time off sick for a few years which is good.

I have made notes and made an appointment with the powers that be to raise the matter of getting another member of staff. I am also in the union but my college is not so lucky for me i have the backing of the union. The union have said that they will back me but said have the first meeting and see how it goes. I have also got an independent witness with me taking notes.

I will let you all know the outcome.

Cheers. -Like.png-
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Vera
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Apr 2021 01 08:02

Re: Staffing

unkiefest wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 6:35am Hi.

Thank you for all your comments I have read each and everyone.

Our hours are week of early shift week of late shift rotating each week.
Early 6am - 2pm
Late 1pm -9pm.

If we want any time off during school term then we have to cover both shifts 15hrs which makes a very long day. Luckily neither of us have had any time off sick for a few years which is good.

I have made notes and made an appointment with the powers that be to raise the matter of getting another member of staff. I am also in the union but my college is not so lucky for me i have the backing of the union. The union have said that they will back me but said have the first meeting and see how it goes. I have also got an independent witness with me taking notes.

I will let you all know the outcome.

Cheers. -Like.png-
You could suggest that your colleague join the union and solidier on for another 6 weeks before going to the powers that be..

That way you will both be protected?
i'm going to need a bigger bucket! -JawDropped.png-
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