Staffing

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Dexter
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Apr 2021 01 09:16

Re: Staffing

Wow, the 6am - 9pm coverage makes your two person team even more thin than I imagined. There does need to be a contingency arrangement if one of you is ill as If you had to cover the other person's shift you would not be getting the 11 hours rest between shifts that you are legally entitled to. (n top of any fatigue that you would suffer that the management would be oblivious to!)
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Taz
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Apr 2021 01 10:07

Re: Staffing

Dexter wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 9:16am Wow, the 6am - 9pm coverage makes your two person team even more thin than I imagined. There does need to be a contingency arrangement if one of you is ill as If you had to cover the other person's shift you would not be getting the 11 hours rest between shifts that you are legally entitled to. (n top of any fatigue that you would suffer that the management would be oblivious to!)
Agreed, it just shows even more how understaffed unkiefest really is.

Do you also cover for absent cleaning staff? If that's the case potentially you could end up having to cover your other body on a 15 hour shift, plus a cleaner. Presuming your cleaner does a 2 hour shift, you may, if you're like me, be able to get their area(s) done in about an hour or so if you really go for it and don't do stuff like high level dusting, glass etc.

Potentially, on paper, you could have to do a 16 hour or so shift covering 2 extra bodies (presuming you cover cleaners as well). You may be able to do that once maybe, providing the management gives you sufficient time off in between and gets someone else to open up for you, but you certainly couldn't do that for a week or so, and in my experience if a cleaner is off ill, they'll be off 3 or 4 days at the very least.

At that rate they would have to cover you, your other bod, plus the cleaner because you wouldn't be able to keep that up. Also borders on illegal with insufficient time off between shifts.
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Buffer
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Apr 2021 01 10:38

Re: Staffing

Dexter wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 9:16am If you had to cover the other person's shift you would not be getting the 11 hours rest between shifts that you are legally entitled to.
Caretakers etc are classed under an exemption in certain circumstances of the working time directive, which the above circumstances would be one of them -Disappointment.png- :-https://www.acas.org.uk/jobs-with-diffe ... time-rules
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twiglets
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Apr 2021 01 10:52

Re: Staffing

It's not about the working time directive it is about being able to provide a reasonable support service. I cover cleaner absences, but after a week of rushing around to do their area the best you can, along side other unscheduled work, things start to fail. I describe it as spinning plates, on the whole you have enough time to keep them all spinning, but as one starts to wobble, you have to give that extra attention, all the time the others are neglected. Some plates can spin on and on without much support, whilst others will wobble frequently. The problem comes when a plate falls and breaks, you then have extra work clearing up the mess, along with trying to get a new plate spinning, all the time the others will be left, and so the cycle goes on. Eventually there is a catastrophic failure and all the plates fall and smash. Others interfere and want their plate spinning faster, others keep added plates, often wobbling from the start. The bottom line is become a Greek waiter and enjoy smashing plates -Shock.png-
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Buffer
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Apr 2021 01 11:09

Re: Staffing

twiglets wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 10:52am It's not about the working time directive it is about being able to provide a reasonable support service. I cover cleaner absences, but after a week of rushing around to do their area the best you can, along side other unscheduled work, things start to fail. I describe it as spinning plates, on the whole you have enough time to keep them all spinning, but as one starts to wobble, you have to give that extra attention, all the time the others are neglected. Some plates can spin on and on without much support, whilst others will wobble frequently. The problem comes when a plate falls and breaks, you then have extra work clearing up the mess, along with trying to get a new plate spinning, all the time the others will be left, and so the cycle goes on. Eventually there is a catastrophic failure and all the plates fall and smash. Others interfere and want their plate spinning faster, others keep added plates, often wobbling from the start. The bottom line is become a Greek waiter and enjoy smashing plates -Shock.png-
So true!
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jholden
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Apr 2021 01 13:45

Re: Staffing

unkiefest wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 6:35am

If we want any time off during school term then we have to cover both shifts 15hrs which makes a very long day. Luckily neither of us have had any time off sick for a few years which is good.
Wow, I've done plenty of 15, 16 even 17hr days in the past, but that's always been by choice not necessity! You really do need to get this sorted some how.
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daleski
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Apr 2021 01 14:14

Re: Staffing

unkiefest wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 6:35am Hi.

Thank you for all your comments I have read each and everyone.

Our hours are week of early shift week of late shift rotating each week.
Early 6am - 2pm
Late 1pm -9pm.

If we want any time off during school term then we have to cover both shifts 15hrs which makes a very long day. Luckily neither of us have had any time off sick for a few years which is good.

I have made notes and made an appointment with the powers that be to raise the matter of getting another member of staff. I am also in the union but my college is not so lucky for me i have the backing of the union. The union have said that they will back me but said have the first meeting and see how it goes. I have also got an independent witness with me taking notes.

I will let you all know the outcome.

Cheers. -Like.png-
I think for the sake of your own physical and mental wellbeing it would be worth reviewing those shifts that you both work. I think many of us do split shifts, the benefit of a split shift is that you get a substantial break during the day and also the fact that you are limited to the type of jobs you can get done while the kids are still on site, perhaps if you tried 6-10am and then 2-6pm with your associate doing 10-2 and 5-9pm then you have someone on site all day but you both benefit from a break ? if you have to cover the other person when they are off perhaps you could do 6-10am and 5-9pm ? again, getting a decent break and an opportunity to work through the ever increasing job list while the kids off site.
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AndyCornwall
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Apr 2021 01 15:58

Re: Staffing

Buffer wrote: Thu, 1st Apr 2021, 10:38am Caretakers etc are classed under an exemption in certain circumstances of the working time directive, which the above circumstances would be one of them -Disappointment.png- :-https://www.acas.org.uk/jobs-with-diffe ... time-rules
The flexibility permitted requires compensatory breaks for the lost rest time.

This can be a later start the next day if you finish later, or a rescheduled break if it is within your working day.

The flexibility exists so that employees don't just up sticks at the end of their day and leave the employer in the lurch.

Doing a 15hr shift on consecutive days is not on and if something happens during that time the H and S Executive wont be your or your employers friend.
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Handyman
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Apr 2021 01 16:37

Re: Staffing

15 hours+ day should be an exception or by choice, not a general thing to allow someone to have annual leave. If one of you is off sick or any other reason for a few weeks that is going to be a lot of hours for the other to have to deal with.

The longest day I have ever done was probably when I did something like 7:00-23:00, then stopping for petrol on the way home and one of the people who was "very poorly" and needed covering came staggering out of the pub next door to the petrol station as I was filling up. I was a bit slower to volunteer for long days after that.
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Sgtspite1968
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Apr 2021 02 23:33

Re: Staffing

I am the Site manager and have an Asst SM, 1 x Caretaker and 2 X Daytime janitors open 0700-2200 (3 shift system) and have 850 students.
I'd say you deffo need more staff especially with those student numbers!
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beagle
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Apr 2021 08 13:15

Re: Staffing

My old school used to be 750 pupils with ma and an assistant, It then amalgamated with the college on site, they had a Site manager, two full time caretakers and one part time. The site team was the cut to Site manager and two caretaker. The college is open 6am till 10pm weekdays and also weekends. They wanted me to work alternating shifts 6-2/2-10 plus one weekend in three. the site was now massive with 1700 pupils.

Now I work in a 470 pupil primary just me, I am reducing my hours in the summer and will be working 6:45 till 1:15 daily, with another caretaker filling in the rest of the day working 12:30 till 6pm.
"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain".
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