Legionella

[Monkey]

Hi. Posting about legionella again, sorry.

I started in November and still not been on a legionella course. Got health and safety course due in April not sure if it will be covered then but looking through the minimal files and last risk assessment from 2021 lots of things were high risk and I know they haven't been dealt with.

Just wondering about chemical disinfection and bacteriological water testing. Should I be doing these myself or would schools normally get a company in?

I literally just go round and check/record temperatures of outlets, report back any numbers which are too high or too low but nothing is done about it.

No one in school knows the answers to my questions or seems to share my concerns

Any recommendations for courses or reading materials?

[PAUL.C]

You have to know what temp the water is stored at not at the outlet. You need to get on a course asap.

[Monkey]

Right. Thanks for that I had no idea, I've been testing the running water. We have a few small water storage heaters but I don't think our cold water is stored. We do have a couple of classrooms whose cold water comes out very warm due to pipes being right next to the hot water/heating pipes but those classrooms are being upgraded so not for much longer.

My school don't want to overwhelm me but I'm worried about not doing my job properly due to not fully knowing what I should be doing.
So frustrating!
Old site manager left no instructions and very little paperwork.

[Vera]

Right. Thanks for that I had no idea, I've been testing the running water. We have a few small water storage heaters but I don't think our cold water is stored. We do have a couple of classrooms whose cold water comes out very warm due to pipes being right next to the hot water/heating pipes but those classrooms are being upgraded so not for much longer.

My school don't want to overwhelm me but I'm worried about not doing my job properly due to not fully knowing what I should be doing.
So frustrating!
Old site manager left no instructions and very little paperwork.

Definitely do a course, particularly if you are being tasked to do temp checks.
Normally there are sentinel taps so you would check those and the storage temps plus the checking of TMV's for correct operation.
Checking the hot water at the boiler house and the sentinel tap furthest from the boiler house will also tell you how well the DHW circulation pumps are working.

[Maverick]

Hi Monkey.

Hot water should be stored at or above 60 degrees C
Cold water should reach below 20 degrees C within 2 minutes.
Hot water should be at least 50 degrees immediately before the TMV.
All little used outlets need to be run for at least 2 minutes weekly.

The legionella bacteria multiply between 20 and 45 degrees and cannot survive above 60 degrees. Hence the reason for these figures.
I have a water and sample analysis done once per year by the company who service our TMV's.

Best advice is to get on a course and document everything.

Any further info. you can DM me.
Always happy to help.

[Nail]

You have to know what temp the water is stored at not at the outlet. You need to get on a course asap.

That's not correct.

[twiglets]

Don't beat yourself up. You have to consider deaths from Legionella is uncommon. We do test to get a flavour of what our water supply temperatures are. Having it at 21 is extremely unlikely to kill everyone- in the summer you are unlikely to get below 20 dependent on you local supply.
Keep recording as best you can and when you have your RA, they will advise on recommendations- some of which will not be practical due to cost etc.
Remember, you are unlikely to have such a regime at home, and your still alive-m I hope.
I'm not belittling what we have to do, it's a bit like PAT testing an item that is hardly used, the likelihood of you getting electrocuted would be low but as always is possible.

[JonOfham]

Don't beat yourself up. You have to consider deaths from Legionella is uncommon. We do test to get a flavour of what our water supply temperatures are. Having it at 21 is extremely unlikely to kill everyone- in the summer you are unlikely to get below 20 dependent on you local supply.
Keep recording as best you can and when you have your RA, they will advise on recommendations- some of which will not be practical due to cost etc.
Remember, you are unlikely to have such a regime at home, and your still alive-m I hope.
I'm not belittling what we have to do, it's a bit like PAT testing an item that is hardly used, the likelihood of you getting electrocuted would be low but as always is possible.

I agree with this.
What things were raised by the risk assessment you mentioned? You say you don't have any cold water storage, and that's where the main risk is.
I've been on a couple of legionella courses and both were a complete waste of time. Yeah it's a piece of paper, but you can learn a whole lot more in most cases by just researching online. Most courses won't be specific to your site, and so will just leave you scratching your head and thinking "so what do I need to do" They will just teach you that legionella forms in stagnant water, causes legionaires desease when it becomes an airborne "aerosol", is killed instantly at 60 degrees, and over time at 45 degrees. There...pay me

[twiglets]

you forgot to mention don't drink from the water butts

[PAUL.C]

That's not correct.

why